“ “ Something clearly was felt by many women…” said another woman, about Doyle. Oh right. If SOMETHING was felt BY MANY WOMEN, it must be just, righteous and true.”
The ‘something’ was jealousy. people need to examine their own feelings before projecting them over someone else and justifying it just because it made them feel bad.
Imagine what those subscribers she bought from else where could have done for all of us, the new followers, the subscribers, the paid readers. But I imagine most of them left with Glennon. I can’t imagine after witnessing that backlash, they thought this was a place they wanted to stay and hang out!
Thank you for this, Polly. I too saw Glennon join and then leave but had no idea why. I’ve followed her for over a decade, she has millions of followers, has been crafting her voice/craft for many, many years and so of course was going to be successful on Substack and quickly. She joined it precisely because she thought it would be a “safe space”. Thank you for holding up that mirror. Hopefully a little more self awareness (and even shame …? Though Glennon is emphatically not about shame) will come to those who piled
Oh my god, Polly! This is so insane. It’s like the mothers at the school gates (to be fair my kids went to school in Northern California so it might be different there!) who can’t bear your kid to be more successful than their kid - I always wanted to yell “there’s room for everyone for fucks sake!!” 🤦🏼♀️ JFC. Thanks for being the voice of bloody reason… again! 🩵
Women and people in general will be happy and supportive of other people’s successes when they feel fulfilled with themselves, basically self love. Jealousy stems from insecurity, self loathing, thinking you’re not good enough. People hurt other people in the hopes they will feel better about themselves. Guess what? They won’t!!!
Anyone else find groups of women petrifying? I am convinced it’s why I work in a male dominated space. I have PTSD from mean girls at school. Great piece Polly! X
Generally they don’t work for me… I’ve found one - my all women boxing group / which really does BUT I wonder if that’s because we were all drawn to boxing? A not traditionally female culture? Dunno.
Me too. My most traumatic and brutal work experience was at the hands of a female dominated management team. I swore after that experience I will never, ever work for a female boss!
Female dominated industries are the meanest. Healthcare? Absolute bitchfest at times. Hairdressing? Why should I pay rent on my chair or for the supplies used on my clients? Even putting CCTV everywhere but the loos, without telling clients?
Writing & SM put you out there, just like being clever or pretty at school. It’s all jealousy. Sadly, unlike at school you can’t hit back when it gets physical.
I’ve seen some people “fight back” by naming & shaming, taking advice from solicitors. How can that be done after a mob pile on?
Trusting other women is risky to your self worth & mental health unless they’ve passed the honesty & time tests.
I do agree, I think a mix of genders is ideal in a working environment and a social one (never understood the appeal of all women clubs? Bizarre) BUT the one exception for me is my all women’s boxing club. I do wonder if that’s about the kind of woman drawn to a non traditionally feminine activity?
I think you’re right about the boxing club. Women drawn to non-traditional pastimes & jobs maybe those who feel uncomfortable/don’t understand the bitchy girl bonding sessions.
I’ve been obsessed with supporting my home town team forever. There are two types of female supporters. Those who love & understand the game & those who hope to catch a boyfriend/husband. Guess which wear full make up & dress up on match day?
I found this shocking, which was silly of me when you've written about experiencing this very thing yourself. Has anyone come up with anything that actually works to stop it? It seems not.
Because none of it is hate speech - it’s just meanness really - I’m not sure how it could be stopped (not that anyone’s stopped hate speech yet). I hope there’ll be a tipping point on people’s consciences… but that also seems a smidge unlikely. Hey ho. There are good people too.
Not kidding or being haughty . I’d never heard of Glennon Doyle until the hubbub on this site. Until your post today . I’d not heard of you . No offense. No bitchiness. I googled . You’re a woman of culture and journalism. I need not expand the obvious . It’s not that I’ve been hiding under a tent sans earthy information. Nope . I read . I hear . I listen . How divine if I shut out all the noise. I’m from a place where “The Industry “ is or was King. Moved to nyc in 70’s. Worked in and out of media and sowed more than a few oats.
“I know a lot of people “ ridiculous expression. But it’s true. I’m glad. Very . To have found you on a chilly, rainy , Friday afternoon on a harbour hundreds of miles from there to here . Eddy Redmayne . He kissed me . On both cheeks. Many years ago. In a celebration of a great friend’s life . He was Redmayne agent . I blushed.
“ “ Something clearly was felt by many women…” said another woman, about Doyle. Oh right. If SOMETHING was felt BY MANY WOMEN, it must be just, righteous and true.”
The ‘something’ was jealousy. people need to examine their own feelings before projecting them over someone else and justifying it just because it made them feel bad.
Imagine what those subscribers she bought from else where could have done for all of us, the new followers, the subscribers, the paid readers. But I imagine most of them left with Glennon. I can’t imagine after witnessing that backlash, they thought this was a place they wanted to stay and hang out!
💯
Thank you for this, Polly. I too saw Glennon join and then leave but had no idea why. I’ve followed her for over a decade, she has millions of followers, has been crafting her voice/craft for many, many years and so of course was going to be successful on Substack and quickly. She joined it precisely because she thought it would be a “safe space”. Thank you for holding up that mirror. Hopefully a little more self awareness (and even shame …? Though Glennon is emphatically not about shame) will come to those who piled
on.
Pleasure. Maybe not shame but self- reflection?
Agreed, Polly. That’s better - and the hope. Hopefully a lesson learnt too.
Oh my god, Polly! This is so insane. It’s like the mothers at the school gates (to be fair my kids went to school in Northern California so it might be different there!) who can’t bear your kid to be more successful than their kid - I always wanted to yell “there’s room for everyone for fucks sake!!” 🤦🏼♀️ JFC. Thanks for being the voice of bloody reason… again! 🩵
Oh no, I believe it’s exactly the same at the UK school gates… mean girls just keep going./. You’re incredibly welcome xxx
Women and people in general will be happy and supportive of other people’s successes when they feel fulfilled with themselves, basically self love. Jealousy stems from insecurity, self loathing, thinking you’re not good enough. People hurt other people in the hopes they will feel better about themselves. Guess what? They won’t!!!
Yup! That ploy never ever worked.
Anyone else find groups of women petrifying? I am convinced it’s why I work in a male dominated space. I have PTSD from mean girls at school. Great piece Polly! X
Generally they don’t work for me… I’ve found one - my all women boxing group / which really does BUT I wonder if that’s because we were all drawn to boxing? A not traditionally female culture? Dunno.
Me too. My most traumatic and brutal work experience was at the hands of a female dominated management team. I swore after that experience I will never, ever work for a female boss!
Excellent piece, although it makes me very sad. That Mean Girl mentality is so enduring x
Oh JB, it really is x
All very well said, although I must admit, I did feel a strong pang of irritation when Stephen Fry started a Substack 😆
I missed that, too…
Mean girls are the absolute worst.
They are. They really are.
Female dominated industries are the meanest. Healthcare? Absolute bitchfest at times. Hairdressing? Why should I pay rent on my chair or for the supplies used on my clients? Even putting CCTV everywhere but the loos, without telling clients?
Writing & SM put you out there, just like being clever or pretty at school. It’s all jealousy. Sadly, unlike at school you can’t hit back when it gets physical.
I’ve seen some people “fight back” by naming & shaming, taking advice from solicitors. How can that be done after a mob pile on?
Trusting other women is risky to your self worth & mental health unless they’ve passed the honesty & time tests.
I’m a cynic from experience
I do agree, I think a mix of genders is ideal in a working environment and a social one (never understood the appeal of all women clubs? Bizarre) BUT the one exception for me is my all women’s boxing club. I do wonder if that’s about the kind of woman drawn to a non traditionally feminine activity?
I think you’re right about the boxing club. Women drawn to non-traditional pastimes & jobs maybe those who feel uncomfortable/don’t understand the bitchy girl bonding sessions.
I’ve been obsessed with supporting my home town team forever. There are two types of female supporters. Those who love & understand the game & those who hope to catch a boyfriend/husband. Guess which wear full make up & dress up on match day?
Great piece of writing Polly! Thank you for highlighting the dark side of the sisterhood.
Xxxxx
Absolutely brilliant piece.
Thank you!
I found this shocking, which was silly of me when you've written about experiencing this very thing yourself. Has anyone come up with anything that actually works to stop it? It seems not.
Because none of it is hate speech - it’s just meanness really - I’m not sure how it could be stopped (not that anyone’s stopped hate speech yet). I hope there’ll be a tipping point on people’s consciences… but that also seems a smidge unlikely. Hey ho. There are good people too.
Not kidding or being haughty . I’d never heard of Glennon Doyle until the hubbub on this site. Until your post today . I’d not heard of you . No offense. No bitchiness. I googled . You’re a woman of culture and journalism. I need not expand the obvious . It’s not that I’ve been hiding under a tent sans earthy information. Nope . I read . I hear . I listen . How divine if I shut out all the noise. I’m from a place where “The Industry “ is or was King. Moved to nyc in 70’s. Worked in and out of media and sowed more than a few oats.
“I know a lot of people “ ridiculous expression. But it’s true. I’m glad. Very . To have found you on a chilly, rainy , Friday afternoon on a harbour hundreds of miles from there to here . Eddy Redmayne . He kissed me . On both cheeks. Many years ago. In a celebration of a great friend’s life . He was Redmayne agent . I blushed.
Welcome! No reason why you should have heard of me. Very nice to have you.
Brilliant. Thank you.
❤️❤️